Graduate Dilemma

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If you're good, you should be able to get decent offers back in Singapore at MNCs. The problem with MC is that it is often seen as nebulous. Plus, like it or not, it is also relationship driven. You need to be able to sell your contacts and expertise in the US.

More importantly, I think the industry you specialize into also matters. A lot of the big and booming industries in the US like pharma, healthcare, high tech etc are run on a very different level and scale in Singapore. So the clients / potential employers are also very different. Bear that in mind, as the change will be extremely drastic.

Exactly, and I have very little control of what sector I do get into in the future (I can influence decision, ultimately I have to be flexible and go wherever partners sell work).

TBH the local bank MA option was only presented to me a while back, I received an email from linkedin from one of the DBS recruiters telling me that they are interested and was willing to fast track my application and voila I received an offer. Honestly, I don't even know what the hell its about. It seems like I'll be doing everything in the bank.

Anyway, Thanks guys, I think I'll probably decide between the two MC offer. That seems to be the general consensus here anyway.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Exactly, and I have very little control of what sector I do get into in the future (I can influence decision, ultimately I have to be flexible and go wherever partners sell work).

TBH the local bank MA option was only presented to me a while back, I received an email from linkedin from one of the DBS recruiters telling me that they are interested and was willing to fast track my application and voila I received an offer. Honestly, I don't even know what the hell its about. It seems like I'll be doing everything in the bank.

Anyway, Thanks guys, I think I'll probably decide between the two MC offer. That seems to be the general consensus here anyway.

OP, don't second guess the consensus here. Everyone, including me, will tell you one thing. Don't need to force yourself in thinking your alternative option, that is starting working in Singapore now or in 1 or 2 years time, is the better option.

Disclaimer: Graduate from top 10 US school now working in HF in Asia, Hong Kong and Singapore.

Yup, take the MC offer in US. One of my regrets is that I didn't have the work experience in the States. Your 3 years or so there will do you tremendously well going forward and you will not have a problem finding employment back in Asia.

In finance, there's a saying. And at the risk of offending the masses out there, I'll say it. "New York gets the top class. Then London. Asia gets the rejects."

As for me, now I can't because settling down with family. It worked out quite okay if you can convince yourself that you'll dominate the Asian markets, something I try to do so myself. Hehe.

One more important note though. Bear in mind taxes in NY are 40%. Then you got rent and food, both of which will cost you about 20% more than in Asia. This will make your US$72k less attractive. One advice I would tell my younger self is that if you are set on returning back to Singapore, don't plunge! After taxes, rent and food, you won't be left with much. Save it, do away with the fancy restaurants, and in 3 years time you'll have enough for that $250k down payment.

I'll shut up if your bonus for your first year is US$50k. Then again, that is taxed and differently under what they call supplementary income. Check on that.

He isn't doing finance though.

Btw, would accommodation/rent be covered by the firms? I know that many IBs would typically be willing to do that. If that's the case, it would make the decision a lot easier.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

OP,
In finance, there's a saying. And at the risk of offending the masses out there, I'll say it. "New York gets the top class. Then London. Asia gets the rejects."

You don't have to parrot what some lame Wall Street banker told you. I was fed the same jazz.. But who caused the 2008 crisis? The best? Gimme a break.

I think most bankers really suffer from delusions of grandeur and short term memory.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You don't have to parrot what some lame Wall Street banker told you. I was fed the same jazz.. But who caused the 2008 crisis? The best? Gimme a break.

I think most bankers really suffer from delusions of grandeur and short term memory.

Turned out this parrot not only listen to lame Wall Street bankers but also got to meet banks in NY, LDN and Asian and made his own conclusion.

I'm Asian and work in Asia myself. It's hard to form an argument that on average, the financiers in Asia beat those in the West. Well, lemme start.

In the investing space, Singapore has Dymon. US has DE Shaw, Citadel, Bridgewater, Rentec. Quantedge had a good run. Last I checked they closed last year in double digits. Only US funds can boast a annualized return of more than 15% or more in the last decade. In quant trading in banks, 90% of the modeling is done in the US and London. And if you sat through interviews for prop trading, you'll know the kind of geniuses straight out of college the US funds will pay a base of $150k to keep them. Hard to find a company in Singapore who'll pay that amount for a fresh graduate.

My point is but just one - on average, US funds and banks have better talent than Asia funds and banks. Hard to argue against that.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Quantedge had a good run. Last I checked they closed last year in double digits.

That is, double digit loses.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

He isn't doing finance though.

Btw, would accommodation/rent be covered by the firms? I know that many IBs would typically be willing to do that. If that's the case, it would make the decision a lot easier.

No. None of the firms would cover rent for fresh graduates. It is quite typical in the west to move to a new city to work and then having to rent. I think Singapore is really an anomaly in which most guys/girls in their 20s still live at home (obviously, due to insane housing prices). But in New York/London, it is extremely common for people in their 20s to rent and firms expect you to cover the cost yourself.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

No. None of the firms would cover rent for fresh graduates. It is quite typical in the west to move to a new city to work and then having to rent. I think Singapore is really an anomaly in which most guys/girls in their 20s still live at home (obviously, due to insane housing prices). But in New York/London, it is extremely common for people in their 20s to rent and firms expect you to cover the cost yourself.

Yup, I agree. Which is why I was also advising the OP to take note of the costs. These things build up quickly, more so in Manhattan. Living in NY, don't expect a S$5 or US$3.50 lunch. More like US$8. I heard stories of people renting at the relatively cheaper Long Island and commuting daily.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Yup, I agree. Which is why I was also advising the OP to take note of the costs. These things build up quickly, more so in Manhattan. Living in NY, don't expect a S$5 or US$3.50 lunch. More like US$8. I heard stories of people renting at the relatively cheaper Long Island and commuting daily.

I did a rough check using s://smartasset.com/taxes/new-york-tax-calculator#OxZDmRxcBh

Let's compare the OP and a normal guy staying with his parents in Singapore.

At US$72k, he'll be taxed 30% leaving him with US$50,400. Per month, that's US$4,200. Rent for a small room can range US$800 to US$1,400. Going with the minimum, his monthly will be US$3,400 less rent, which at current exchange rate, is slightly under S$5,000.

So he's looking at S$5,000 a month post rent and tax. Still respectable for a starting salary.

If I were S&O in NYC, I would rescind your offer immediately.

I think its a pretty no-brainer which one is your best offer. Mind you, this is Deloitte US, not the mickey mouse Deloitte over here and you're comparing it to a local program here - which at best is DBS MA? The progression at Deloitte is going to be so much better for the first few years before you parachute off into grad school (paid for by your company btw).

Besides, you'll be spending most of your weekdays away from NYC that you'll be billing so much frivolous expenses to your client's tab, you'll have no idea what use for your remaining money, apart from splurging it on picking up girls when your partner takes you out.